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Women in Gloria Victis
17-08-2014, 22:01,
#21
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
fellows but this is 1) game 2) low fantasy-but fantasy
There is only one true Polish dragon. THE WAWEL DRAGON
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10-09-2014, 06:06,
#22
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
As long as you get a unicorn mount. You can't play a female without it.
Piko Island Studios DIY Indie Games
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10-09-2014, 18:36,
#23
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
(28-03-2014, 18:37)Jetcutter Wrote:
(22-03-2014, 02:51)Majere616 Wrote: Or we could just ditch the entrenched misogyny of reality because it adds literally nothing enjoyable or enriching to the experience of playing the game and including it with weak justifications of "But it's historically accurate" is incredibly disingenuous in a setting where you can get in a fight with a troll.

[Image: obrazek_4_zps2ef203f9.jpg]

Failed understanding;
Women of earlier times never fought in battle or wore armor.=Wrong.
There are several references to women participating in armed conflict from most periods of history. While some evidence is available for noble ladies-turned-military commanders, such as Countess Jeanne de Penthièvre (1319–1384), there are only scattered references to women from lower levels of society taking up arms. Nevertheless, some are recorded as having fought in armor, although no contemporary illustrations showing any of them actually wearing armor appear to have survived. Joan of Arc (ca. 1412–1431), probably the most famous example of a female warrior, is reputed to have had a suit of armor commissioned for her by the French king Charles VII. Yet, only one small illustration of her, undoubtedly drawn during her lifetime, has come down to us, showing her with a sword and banner but not dressed in armor. The fact that contemporaries apparently perceived women leading an army, or even wearing armor, as something worth recording at least in writing indicates that such a sight must have been an exception rather than the rule.


Quote from: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd...tm#women_b

Actually...
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/women...rriors.htm
http://www.sparknotes.com/mindhut/2013/0...in-history
http://www.lothene.org/women/women.html
They aren't as rare as implied but they do seem to be conspicuously absent in terms of paintings and other visual records.
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11-09-2014, 01:23,
#24
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
You might give this recent article a look.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/09/female-...oof-swords
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11-09-2014, 10:26,
#25
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
(11-09-2014, 01:23)Jetcutter Wrote: You might give this recent article a look.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/09/female-...oof-swords

Is it wrong that I went: Heh... gives rape and pillage a better connotation for the poor monks... though if it was a nympho in chain mail...yeesh.
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11-09-2014, 17:56,
#26
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
Haha - how ridiculous - as if it were any consequence to this game what a small population of literate men in the Middle Ages recorded about women. When there was no name for misogyny because it was the default way of thinking about gender equality.

I think this is a question of how you play your character? As if a role-player? I highly doubt that any developer would decide to imbalance the way a female would be played versus a man in the game.

But if you were asking whether a woman in the Middle Ages would have worn male armor or behaved differently in order to gain male acceptance in a tournament or war-guild - then yes I think so.

And I say so not as a historian but as a modern-day veteran - women in the military today wear the same body armor, carry the same weapons (because - yea - no shit), and behave as best they can like their male-dominated peers - even pretending to be misogynistic themselves and putting down other females who are more feminine to fit in. I think it's natural given that war is a more masculine activity - even if it's being fought by women.

So if you wanted to play as a woman who has social boundaries and anxieties and puts on airs around her male guild-mates - I think it's perfectly legitimate - and if you want to play as a woman who is a feminist (Amazon?) and dyes everything pink - I think that'll be fine too.

If you're asking what is more realistic - I would say the former, in my opinion. There are probably a lot of facets about what was recorded in the Middle Ages that are distortions or misconceptions of reality, so I wouldn't rely on just a few research papers linked to on the internet as gospel.
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11-09-2014, 22:34,
#27
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
(11-09-2014, 17:56)Steve Wrote: Haha - how ridiculous - as if it were any consequence to this game what a small population of literate men in the Middle Ages recorded about women. When there was no name for misogyny because it was the default way of thinking about gender equality.

I think this is a question of how you play your character? As if a role-player? I highly doubt that any developer would decide to imbalance the way a female would be played versus a man in the game.

But if you were asking whether a woman in the Middle Ages would have worn male armor or behaved differently in order to gain male acceptance in a tournament or war-guild - then yes I think so.

And I say so not as a historian but as a modern-day veteran - women in the military today wear the same body armor, carry the same weapons (because - yea - no shit), and behave as best they can like their male-dominated peers - even pretending to be misogynistic themselves and putting down other females who are more feminine to fit in. I think it's natural given that war is a more masculine activity - even if it's being fought by women.

So if you wanted to play as a woman who has social boundaries and anxieties and puts on airs around her male guild-mates - I think it's perfectly legitimate - and if you want to play as a woman who is a feminist (Amazon?) and dyes everything pink - I think that'll be fine too.

If you're asking what is more realistic - I would say the former, in my opinion. There are probably a lot of facets about what was recorded in the Middle Ages that are distortions or misconceptions of reality, so I wouldn't rely on just a few research papers linked to on the internet as gospel.

So you're saying women have to behave like men to be realistic? Sorry dude but aside from the weapons and armor your post is pure conjecture steeped in facts I think originate from a specific human bodily orifice.

Oh and Amazons weren't feminists they were a matriarchal society not a patriarchal one so you may want to actually study up on that one.
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12-09-2014, 08:16,
#28
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
BlackWolf - I think maybe you should read what I'd said more carefully. I'd encourage anyone to behave however they like - especially in a game.

And yes - I can say from personal experience that women in combat tend to conform to what they think is expected of them from males in their peer group. It's not conjecture - I worked with FET teams (Female Engagement Teams) in Afghanistan for 9 months.

Not that I'm an expert - but I figured with all the references to Joan of Arc paintings, maybe I could lend a more contemporary opinion. Naval-gazing is fun, but I (maybe incorrectly) assumed that more could be said on women in combat environments than what could be gleaned from Google.

And I bow humbly to your knowledge of Amazonian society - good work.
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12-09-2014, 12:59, (This post was last modified: 12-09-2014, 13:01 by BlackWolf.)
#29
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
(12-09-2014, 08:16)Steve Wrote: BlackWolf - I think maybe you should read what I'd said more carefully. I'd encourage anyone to behave however they like - especially in a game.

And yes - I can say from personal experience that women in combat tend to conform to what they think is expected of them from males in their peer group. It's not conjecture - I worked with FET teams (Female Engagement Teams) in Afghanistan for 9 months.

Not that I'm an expert - but I figured with all the references to Joan of Arc paintings, maybe I could lend a more contemporary opinion. Naval-gazing is fun, but I (maybe incorrectly) assumed that more could be said on women in combat environments than what could be gleaned from Google.

And I bow humbly to your knowledge of Amazonian society - good work.

Your experience is assuming a patriarchal society (believe it or not that's what feminism is fighting against even currently though compared to the past now it's only really dealing with minor issues trying to bring about true equality at least in the case of true feminists not so called feminazis that want to go from patriarchal to matriarchal) thus is biased heavily towards women acting like men to be accepted within their chosen role. It wouldn't be a stretch (and indeed in history there have been quite a few societies where men and women had more or less equal rights) to consider Gloria Victis a egalitarian society (or at least both genders being equally as fucked) not a patriarchal/matriarchal one in which case female warriors would be as common as male ones (gender roles wouldn't even exist but assumed roles would) and armor wouldn't be tailor made for one gender but both (ergo armors for women would feature something like a complementary sports bra to help compensate the issue of handling weapons as well as other additional features which wouldn't hamper males but would aid females, weapons in general would be less massive by standard to be more easy to use for women who as a matter of genetics are more agile but less powerful than men on average and before anyone even says it: weight boosts swing power in a linear fashion, speed boosts it in a more exponential fashion ergo men wouldn't suffer from lighter weapons, etc).

I hope the devs don't cop out with all the in-game factions by making them all patriarchal (would be easier and more easily understood for most gamers, be they male or female, though) or at least strike some sort of balance (having a amazon sub-faction would be interesting, maybe one of the major factions being a mix of patriarchal and matriarchal in different facets, etc).
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12-09-2014, 21:22, (This post was last modified: 12-09-2014, 21:25 by Steve.)
#30
RE: Women in Gloria Victis
Of course my experience is assuming a patriarchal society - I'm not describing a fantasy world - I was describing my own experience. And previous posts were also describing women in history as examples of how a woman might be played in this game - history of the real patriarchal societies on which this game is based.

Midlanders/Western Europeans = patriarchal; Ismirs/Northern Europeans = patriarchal; Azebans/Arabs = patriarchal; Sangarians/Greeks = patriarchal. I'm not making a judgment call on whether or not the developers of the game should base one of their proposed Nations on a matriarchal versus patriarchal society - I'm simply saying that within the context of what this game is based on, a reasonable assumption of female behavior MIGHT be to assume a more masculine affectation. Not that a female player or character should - again, that is a judgment call that I'm NOT making. How ridiculous would that be of me to do.

Now if YOU are suggesting the developers create a matriarchal society, or "sub-faction" - I think that's just fine. On the other hand - I don't think anyone would insist that female characters be practically different to male characters - therefore it would be the choice of the player of the female character to decide how to act. Because we live in the 21st century - and this is a game.

I think your idea of a sports bra built into armor is hilarious - and I think weapons and armor should look and act the same no matter a character's anatomy. I laugh a bit at games that hyper-sexualize female armors - more for reasons of practicality though, and not because I'm super concerned with gender sensitivity in video games.

On another note - I think it's only fair that if the developers create armors with conical breasts for females that they create cod-pieces for males. My dream is to create an emotionally imbalanced pirate character who looks like David Bowie in the Labyrinth.
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